oprema za kisu...?

gdje sto povoljnije nabaviti neku kabanicu i vodootporne hlace..?
znaci samo izolacija od kise, da se moze i zimi preko jakne, ali i sada u jesen preko duge majce..

jutros sam testirao jednu kabanicu sto sam dobio od t-mobile i adidasove zastitne hlace preko trenerke..

nakon sat vremena intezivne kise, ispod kabanice na dugoj majci je bilo par mokrih fleka, tako da za dugotrajniji boravak na kisi nije..

a adidasove preko trenerke su zastitile, iako nije to to.. jer je trenerka od ispod bila vlazna..

tako da mi treba nesto puno jace od ovoga... ako ima tko kakav prijedlog.. link..

Nema savršenog rješenja, jer makar imao i goretex membrau, vjerojatno ćeš se puno više znojiti nego što je membrana propusna...

McKinley je ima dobre kišne hlače, a šta se kabanice tiče, ima more opcija, raznih ponča, kišnjaka, itd...

Na kiši, pomiri se s tim da ćeš, ovako ili onako, barem donekle bit mokar... Bitnije je nać načina osušit se nekako, u neko doba...

Kolega Doomsday,
Ne bi se baš složio sa tvojom tvrdnjom o Gore-texu.
Naime, ja bi rekao da GTX još i najbolje diše od tih membrana. Izuzev možda Salewinog Alpine-texa.
Ja sam biciklist koji pedalira po svim vremenskim uvjetima, bez obzira koliko jako kiša padala, znam i planinarit po kiši i uglavnom provedem dosta vremena izložen vodi koja pada s neba i otkad sam se na svojoj koži (doslovce) uvjerio u blagodati GTX-a sam si dao truda i odvojio novaca da se od glave do pete obučem u njego jer ga smatram još uvijek najboljim rješenjem za ostati potpuno suh i po najjačem pljusku.
Imao sam recimo od McKinleya jaknu sa njihovom AquaMax membranom - promočila je, Zajo hlače sa nekom njihovom membranom (zaboravih naziv) - promočile su, Jelen čizme sa Sympatex membranom - promočile su, ...
Sada imam dvije GTX jakne - do sad mi niti jedna nije promočila, GTX hlače - isto nisu nikad promočile, cipele sa GTX-om - suhe noge i kad sam po potoku hodao, GTX vreća za spavanje - sad na Vudelju sam po pljusku spavao direktno na travi, bez ikakve podloge, i ostao potpuno suh...
Imam i jedne lagane jaknu i hlače od Trango Worlda sa njihovom Inner Plus membranom koji nakon dužeg vremena pod jakom kišom propuste, ali to su mi ljetne stvari za one kratke ljetne pljuskove.
Tako da sažetak je: GTX je još uvijek alfa i omega nepromočivosti!
I vjerujem da to nije samo moje mišljenje.

Jel mozes reci odakle si se opremio goretexom odnosno koja marka?

@urbana_gorilla - nismo se razumili, nisan govorija o nepromočivosti goretex membrane, nego kako je kolega začetnik teme spominja da je bija vlažan ispod a nije promočija odozgo, tija san samo napomenit da ni najbolja membrana danas na tržištu (barem po meni), goretex, ne može prpoustit baš sav znoj kad se krećeš, penješ ili što već radiš po kiši... Ne promoči, ali budeš vlažan ispod, od znoja, jer iako propušta poprilično pare i nije strašno nosit ka nepropusni materijali, kod pojačanog znojenja niti najbolja membrana ne može propustit svu vlagu koju tijelo proizvodi...

Kod tvojih iskustava, moguće je da si bio za vrijeme kiše vlažan ispod goretex membrane dok si se naprezao, ali lipota te membrane je da se uspiješ ispod nje i osušit, kad naprezanje prestane, ili vanka opadne vlaga u zraku... Ali, ni ona nije svemoguća, pa se može dogodit kod visoke vlažnosti u zraku da ostaneš vlažan od znoja ispod goretex membrane... To ne znači da ona ne funkcionira, samo da bi ispod nedišuće membrane ili neke membrane lošijih svojstava vjerojatno bija mokar ka da si bija direkt na kiši...

Pridružujem se Stribogu - Gorila možeš malo detaljnije navesti tu top GTX opremu, karakteristike, cijene, dostupnost..

Tehničke kearakteristike GTX membrana:

GORE-TEX® – the new Product Ranges
The Gore naming system is targeted to performance characteristics and end use and not dependent on specific technology. Choice of face fabrics and construction help define the product and which category it qualifies for.

GORE-TEX Pro Shell
Engineered with the most rugged, most breathable fabrics for extended and extreme conditions. GORE-TEX Pro Shells meet the demands of outdoor professionals and serious enthusiasts.
Pro Shell includes the latest technology improvements. Finished garments also have to meet rigorous standards in: breathability, strength to weight and durability to weight.
Most closely related to previous XCR category.
2L and 3L - key 3L feature is the new Micro Grid woven backer technology – improves internal abrasion and snag resistance, enhances breathability and decreases garment weight.
NOTE: because the Micro Grid backer does not stretch it is not possible to have a stretch Pro Shell product.

GORE-TEX Performance Shell
Designed to provide comfort and durable waterproof protection. GORE-TEX Performance shells are ideal for a wide range of outdoor activities.
Performance Shell includes - Z-liner, 2L and 3L with the traditional tricot backer.
Performance is similar to previous Classic category.

GORE-TEX Paclite Shell
Featuring the lightest, most packable fabrics. GORE-TEX Paclite Shells are extremely breathable and are ideal when weight and space is critical.
PacLite shells must be less than 16 oz to qualify.


GORE™ Comfort Mapping Technology
Improves comfort through intelligent garment design. Viewing the human body as a map with several different climatic zones, specific GORE-TEX fabrics are uniquely combined to increase breathability, comfort against the skin, warmth, and/or fit, precisely where they are needed most.

Total Comfort – Gore goes the extra mile to assure the final garment performs for the consumer. They have established maximum Ret’s for their fabrics and for the linings that may be used in 2L garments.

Pro: overall garment <6 Ret - lining <2.5 Ret
Performance: overall garment <13 Ret - lining <3 Ret


GORE-TEX® Pro Shell
Engineered with the most rugged, most breathable fabrics for extended and extreme conditions. GORE-TEX Pro Shells meet the demands of outdoor professionals and serious enthusiasts.
GORE-TEX Pro Shell includes the latest technology improvements. Finished garments also have to meet rigorous standards in: breathability, strength to weight and durability to weight.
2L and 3L - key 3L feature is the new Micro Grid woven backer technology – improves internal abrasion and snag resistance, enhances breathability, decreases garment weight and is a very clean look inside the garment.

Waterproofness: 40+ PSI
Breathability: Overall garment < 6 Ret
2L Spec is <4.5 Ret Typical is 4
(JIS L-1099 B1: 2 layer - >25,000 gr/m/24 hours typical)
3L Spec is < 6 Ret Typical is 3.5-4
(JIS L-1099 B1: 3 layer - >25,000 gr/m/24 hours typical)
Windproofness: 0 CFM, 100% windproof

Mini-Rip N-110 – 20 denier high tenacity nylon mini ripstop
Used in: M’s and W’s Exum Jkt and Pant,
• Ultralight
• Durable
• Packable

Liberty N-140 – lightweight nylon plain weave with textured yarn
Used in: M’s and W’s Exum Jkt and Pant, W’s Fjell Jkt,
Wgt: 1.4 oz./sq yd.
• Non-shiny, textured feel
• Compressible

NEW Moxie N-140 – 70d Nylon plain weave
Used in: Alpinist Jkt, Point Five Pant,
• Durable

False Twist N-280 - 70-denier false twist textured nylon. Best strength to weight ratio.
Used in: M’s and W’s Randonnee Pant,
Wgt: 2.3 oz.
• High Strength to Weight
• Superior snow and rain-shedding due to less fuzzy texture of False Twist textured yarn.



GORE-TEX® Performance Shell
Designed to provide comfort and durable waterproof protection. GORE-TEX Performance shells are ideal for a wide range of outdoor activities.
GORE-TEX Performance Shell is the workhorse of the GORE-TEX family with the widest variety of available fabrics and great value.
Waterproofness: 40+ PSI
Breathability: Overall garment Spec is <130 Ret
2L <10 Ret Typical Ret is 5.5
3L <13 Ret Typical Ret is 8
Windproofness: 0 CFM, 100% windproof

Drift P-250 – 75d Polyester with soft hand
Used in: M’s and W’s Spire Jkt, W’s Sunbowl Jkt and Pant
• Soft Hand
• Packable

NEW Vital N-250 – 75d X 72d polyester plain weave
Used in: Rubicon Jkt, W’s Bluebird Insulated Jkt and Pant,
Wgt: 2.5 oz

NEW Contour N-280 – 75d X 150d, near microfibre for soft hand and performance.
Used in: M’s and W’s Palisades Jkt, Rustler Jkt, Free Flight Pant,

NEW Flex P280S – 78d X 70d Stretch 3L
Used in: Point Five Pant, Torre Jkt,
Wgt: 2.8 oz./sq yd.
• Durable
• Stretch

Blend NC-329 – Nylon / cotton blend
Used in: LTD Parka, Big Parka,
Wgt: 3.2 oz/sq yd
• Rugged urban look
• Great hand



GORE-TEX® Paclite™ Shell
Featuring the lightest, most packable fabrics. GORE-TEX Paclite Shells are extremely breathable and are ideal when weight and space is critical.
Waterproofness: 40+ PSI
Breathability: Overall garment Spec is <6 Typical Ret is 4
Windproofness: 0 CFM, 100% windproof

Drift P-250 – 75d Polyester with soft hand
Used in: M’s and W’s Minimalist Jkt,
• Soft Hand
• Packable


Ja imam jednu GORE-TEX® Pro Shell jaknu: nosiva tkanina je Cordura sa 3L (3 Layer, ili troslojni) GTX membranom, može se vidjeti na fotkama sa posljednjeg susreta u Lepoglavi (plava jakna koju nosim, na žalost ne mogu navesti proizvođača i cijenu); jednu GORE-TEX® Performance Shell jaknu proizvođača Trango World (2,5L GTX) kupljenu u Iglu sportu za 1800 kn; vojne nadhlače GORE-TEX® Pro Shell 3L naručene sa Ebaya jer su ispale jeftinije nego kod nas (imaju ih u American shopu za 800 kn, ja sam ih našao na Ebayu za nešto manje od 400 kn sa poštarinom); te tri para cipela, tj. gojzerica proizvođača La Sportiva sa klasičnom 2,5L GTX membranom za obuću (druga kategorija od ovog koji se koristi u odjeći, nemam tehničke podatke), kupljene u Iglu sportu i uglavnom su oko 1000-1200 kn/par (ima i skupljih, naravno, ovo su jeftiniji modeli...).

Eto, kad ste pitali za karakteristike, cijene i dostupnost GTX prozvoda...

I još malo podataka o paropropusnosti GTX membrane:


Breathability: is it all a bunch of hot air??

Breathability: the ability of a fabric to allow moisture vapor to be transmitted through the material.

Air Permeability: the ability of a fabric to allow air to pass through it. While Air Permeable fabrics tend to have relatively high moisture vapor transmission, it is not necessary to be Air Permeable to be breathable.

Moisture Vapor Transfer (MVT): in waterproof fabrics occurs by two processes:
Physical: Hydrophobic (water hating) microporous coatings or laminations have pores that are so small that liquid water cannot go thru. However, water in vapor state is many times smaller than water in the liquid state and can pass thru these “micro pores”.

Chemical: Hydrophillic (water loving) / non-porous laminations or coatings move moisture by chemical diffusion. The water molecule is positively charged and the hydrophilic PU is negatively charged, attracting the water thru the intermolecular gaps of the PU. Because the ionic bond is relatively weak, the water then gets pushed thru the gaps until the water vapor passes all the way thru.

Driving Force: this is the difference in the level of heat and humidity on one side of the material compared to the other side. Also known as the Differential Pressure.
“Nature abhors a vacuum”. Everything in nature continually moves toward equilibrium or balance. Heat will move toward cold. Moisture will move towards dry.
Therefore, warm, moist air will flow towards cold, dry air until there is an equilibrium.
Due to body heat and moisture there is almost always higher heat and humidity inside a clothing system. This creates a Differential Pressure forcing the heat and humidity toward the outside.
The greater the difference between the heat and humidity inside the clothing system and the outside, the greater the Differential Pressure to push that heat and humidity out.

Now, how do we test it?
Nothing takes the place of actual field testing, but that becomes impractical and time consuming. So we have some lab tests that try to indicate field performance.
The most accepted tests are:
Upright Cup – A1 (A2 is not generally used)
Inverted Cup – B1 and B2
Sweating Hot Plate – Ret


Upright Cup test – JIS L 1099 A-1, or just A1 test for short.
(JIS = Japanese Industry Standards)
Simply stated: a dessicant, calcium chloride, is put into a cup. A piece of fabric is then secured over the cup and placed in a controlled environment. Then after period of time the cup is weighed to see how much water has been “pulled” into the cup thru the fabric. The weight is then extrapolated to show the number of grams per 24hours per sq meter of fabric that will pass thru the fabric.
Performance Range:
Low – Under 4,000
Moderate - 4,000 to 8,000
High - 9,000+
Maximum I have seen is in the 15,000 range and very rare
High performance in A1 test is in the 10,000 to 15,000 gr/24hrs range and usually shows that a fabric has a fairly quick release of moisture, but may not be the best over longer periods of use.

Inverted Cup test – JIS L 1099 B-1, or just B1 for short. (similar to the ASTM E96-BW test method). A dessicant, Potassium Acetate, is put into a cup and sealed with a piece of ePTFE (Teflon/Gore-tex film). The fabric to be tested is then placed over the cup with the fabric side to the cup.
The cup is then inverted into a pan of water. Then after period of time the cup is weighed to see how much water has been “pulled” into the cup thru the fabric. The weight is then extrapolated to show the number of grams per 24hours / per sq meter of fabric that will pass thru the fabric.
High performance in the B1 test is over 20,000gr/24hrs/m.
Performance Range:
Low: Under 10,000
Moderate: 10,000 to 20,000
High: Over 20,000 The rare fabric may go over 30,000 gr/24hrs/m.

Inverted Cup Test – JIS L 1099 B-2
This test is the same as the B1 method with the addition of a ePTFE film between the water and the fabric. While a good test, it eliminates the effect of fabric when in direct contact with water. When sweat condenses on the inside of a fabric with a Hydrophobic laminate, like MemBrain, the lamination will actively pull the water thru the fabric reducing condensation. This can be a tremendous addition to the comfort of the user.
This is also best used for non-waterproof fabrics, so the water in the pan does not pass directly through the uncoated fabric.


Toliko o GTX membranama... Ako imate još pitanja - pitajte i rado ću odgovoriti ako znam odgovor.

Hvala Gorila zbilja iscrpno objašnjenje. Vezano uz ove nadhlače možeš malo reći da li su samo za hladnije doba ili mogu funkcionirati i u umjerenim temperaturama tj. da li je prevuće u njima na npr. 20 stupnjeva te ima li neki brand koji možeš preporučiti?

Pretpostavljam da bi bilo dosta toplo u njima jer spadaju u ECWCS (Extended Cold Weather Clothing System) kategoriju odjeće.

http://www.americanshop.hr/surplus-vojni-visak-novo-quality-1/4663/ecwcs-nadhlace-q1-gore-tex-trousers-usw

Zato za to toplije vrijeme imam "ljetni komplet" koji se sastoji od laganih Trango world hlača i jakne sa njihovom Inner plus membranom koja, kao što sam rekao, dosta dobro drži vodu ali nakon dužeg vremena pod jačim pljuskom propusti (jedini put kad mi je jakna propustila, hlače čak i nisu je bilo kad sam u njima planinario jedno 5-6 sati po dosta jakoj kiši), a što se tiće parapropusnosti je dosta dobra i ne znojim se u tome.
Kupljeno u Iglu sportu.



http://www.iglusport.hr/proizvodi.asp?id=1300



http://www.iglusport.hr/proizvodi.asp?id=1009

Hvala, to sam si i mislio za hlače. Još jedno pitanjce gdje si nabavio GTX vreću? Heh, baš smo te zasuli pitanjima!

jedan dodatak iscrpnom goretex objasnjenju... postoji goretex i goretex xcr, ovaj xcr je poboljsana goretex membrana koja ima isti stupanj vodootpornosti ali 25% bolje dise od obicnog goretexa

damjan je napisao/la:jedan dodatak iscrpnom goretex objasnjenju... postoji goretex i goretex xcr, ovaj xcr je poboljsana goretex membrana koja ima isti stupanj vodootpornosti ali 25% bolje dise od obicnog goretexa

Ispravak...

"So What is Gore-Tex Pro Shell?

Gore-Tex XCR has been W.L. Gore's high performance waterproof breathable membrane for a few years now, and Pro Shell is a replacement for this. "Classic Gore-Tex" is remaining unchanged but being re-branded as Performance Shell. Like XCR, Pro shell is aimed more at climbers, mountaineers and more adventurous hill walkers; with Performance Shell for everything that doesn't fall into those categories. Both will be available in two and three layer flavours. So what's new about Pro Shell? Well it is essentially still the same Gore membrane but with a scrim (that's the fabric on the inside of the jacket) that is woven rather than knitted. This is more important than it may at first sound, giving several significant advantages over XCR.

Texture

The new scrim is smoother than the old XCR was. This means the fabric has less friction when rubbing against other surfaces, and so it is more likely to slide over sharp objects rather than tear. This reduction in friction will also mean there is less rubbing between the inside of the jacket, and whatever you are wearing underneath. Arguably this will make Pro Shell a little more comfortable to wear if you only have a short sleeved base layer on, compared to XCR. It will also reduce the wear on any of your layering garments, as it slides smoothly over them rather than speeding up the pilling of your fleece. This smoother fabric should make getting garments on and off a lot easier, which can only be a good thing!

Weight

The new scrim makes Pro Shell lighter by about 15%. In a medium to large size jacket, you are looking at a weight decrease of between 60g and 80g. This is a fairly significant amount of weight loss and brings down the weight of a Pro Shell jacket to that of a Paclite jacket from a few years ago, whilst retaining the durability of a full-on mountain shell.

Durability

The next advantage of the new scrim is that it is more durable than the old knitted version. Now the main wear on a jacket is from the outside of a garment, and it depends on the face fabric how well it will deal with this. However, if the fabric is getting lighter then you can't complain about it getting stronger! Hopefully your Pro Shell jacket will last a bit longer, at least from any nicks and scratches that you might pick up on the inside of the jacket.

Breatheability

It's what you have all been waiting for, how breathable is Pro Shell? Well it depends who you ask. The new scrim has made Pro Shell more breathable than XCR. However, one of the limiting factors of any membrane is the face fabric (the fabric on the outside of the jacket that protects the delicate Gore-tex membrane). All face fabrics impeed the breathability of a membrane, but without it the membrane would be shredded within minutes of use. Different face fabrics will have differing properties: weight, tear resistance, strength, flexibility, as well as colour choice and price. Breathability is one of these properties, so Pro Shell will breathe to a varying amount depending on the face fabric, just the same as it varies with any other membrane. However lab tests have been done on many different face fabric/Pro Shell combinations, and some of these have been very breathable, even more so than Event. However, in other types of breathability test, Event does better, and none of these tests truly represent what happens in the real world as there are far too many varying factors.
Another consideration is the skinny 11mm (or sometimes 8mm) tape that is being used on Pro Shell jackets, frees up a greater surface area of the jacket by about the size of an A4 piece of paper, again increasing breathability. Pro Shell will also be marginally cooler than XCR due to its increased breathability.


Conclusion

So is Pro Shell more breathable than Event? It will depend on the jacket, but I would say that they are much more on a par with one another than XCR was. However other things to think about when buying a Pro Shell jacket is that it will be a bit more flexible, lighter and more durable than XCR was. However, the features and cut of a jacket are at least as important as the fabric, so I would recommend trying a new jacket on before buying it."

http://www.ultimateoutdoors.co.uk/news/Whiteroom/article/20.html

Ima još...

"New Pro Shell will effectively replaced Gore-Tex XCR in the Gore range of fabrics, but says Gore's John McDonald, it's 'more than just the next step in XCR'. "

... malo niže u istom članku...

"More Breathable

Last but not least, McDonald also says that Pro Shell is more breathable, in fact he claims: 'New Pro Shell is more breathable than anything ese available.'

In lab tests, Pro Shell fabrics produced RET values between 3 and 6, with one carefully selected face fabric producing a score as low as 2.5. To put that in perspective, three-layer XCR has been quoted as having an RET of 5.1 - lower is better - while eVENT Is around 4.5."

Da ne kopiram cijeli članak, pročitajte sami...

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gear-features/goreand39s-new-fabric---scoop/4480.html

Dakle XCR je stara tehnologija, a GORE-TEX® Pro Shell nova i bolja.

I da odgovorim na pitanje,

hydra je napisao/la:Još jedno pitanjce gdje si nabavio GTX vreću?

U Amercan shopu, ali nemaju ih više. Vjerovatno zato što su bile surplus (vojni višak, znači rabljene) i kao takve su koštale samo 300 kn pa su planule u sekundi.

Koja je razlika izmedju softshella i goretexa? Koliko vidim na netu prvi je laksi ali malo manje vodootporan no nevjerujem bas tim informacijama sa obzirom na razliku u cijeni pa ako netko zna?

Soft Shell vs. Hard Shell Jackets
Written on February 23, 2009 by Branden McIntyre in Guides, News



Hard Shell

When you think of a hard shell, think of a rain jacket. Hard shells are designed to keep water out. As a result, the average hard shell has no insulation and requires layering in colder conditions. Hard shells tend to be crinkly and make a bit of noise when moving. However, when the weather gets nasty outside there is no substitute. When you’re going in to a blizzard or a downpour, this is your first line of defense.

As with everything in life, there is a trade off. By keeping the water out it’s harder to let your sweat evaporate and escape. So while Gore-Tex and other laminates may breathe so it doesn’t feel like you’re wearing a garbage bag, they can get clammy. This can result in a layer of built up sweat on high exertion days that can chill you to the bone when you stop for a rest.

To get around this problem, manufacturers have tried to come up with quite a few ways to manage how breathable hard shells are. One of these innovations was the pit zip. The pit zip is a large zipper that runs under the armpit of a jacket and allows you to open a large section of the jacket to the outside air. This way you can get more air flow to the hottest parts of your body and hopefully prevent water build up.

Gore-Tex was a giant revolution in hard shell design. This laminate is composed of a material that allows water vapor to pass through while stopping water. This way sweat can evaporate but the rain won’t penetrate the jacket. Since its original invention, there have been several advances in how breathable the fabric has become. Today this has resulted in Gore-Tex Performance Shell and Pro Shell. In 2008, eVent started to come to the US market as a major competitor to Gore-Tex. The manufacturer claims that eVent is more breathable than Gore-Tex Pro Shell.

Breathable fabric doesn’t come cheap. While competition has finally arrived to Gore-Tex’s crown of the outdoor fabric of choice, prices haven’t come down. Expect to pay at least $200 for a Gore-Tex or eVent jacket and the prices go up from there. High end hard shell jackets retail for $400 to $600.



Soft Shell

So what exactly is a soft shell jacket? Soft shells are actually a range of fabrics that comprise the anti-hard shell. While hard shells are stiff and loud, soft shells are stretchy and quiet. The main claim to fame of a soft shell is how breathable they are. The average soft shell jacket is much more breathable than even Gore-Tex Pro Shell or eVent. As a result, soft shells don’t typically need pit zips.

The ability to breathe comes at the cost in its ability to block the wind. The more wind that is blocked, the less breathable the fabric is. As a result in the number of activities people do in soft shells, there is a wide assortment of fabrics that all block varying amounts of wind. With the constantly changing product lines and fabrics, your best choice for picking out the proper soft shell for you is to try them on in the store.

Besides breathability, soft shells are far more flexible than hard shell jackets. In a soft shell jacket you get a full range of motion that can allow you to more naturally move in any environment. A soft shell will stretch and move with your body instead of crinkling and restricting movement.

The attraction to soft shells is in its versatility. While you use a hard shell for the worst weather, you can use a soft shell for pretty much anything else. A soft shell jacket is at home in conditions from light rain to mild spring days. On a mild day you can wear a soft shell jacket skiing and will be much more comfortable than in a hard shell jacket.

So what is this all going to cost? A good soft shell isn’t going to be cheap, but it will be cheaper than a good hard shell. Expect to pay anywhere from $150 to around $300 for a decent soft shell. As an added bonus, since they’re designed to be worn in mild weather, you don’t need to buy a fleece to go under it like a hard shell.

http://www.dailyhiker.com/news/soft-vs-hard-shell-jackets/

Ima još sličnih članaka na netu, slobodno se malo koristi Google...

http://www.backcountry.com/sc/what-the-heck-is-soft-shell

...

Koristio sam se guglom ali vecina odgovora je u rangu softsel je mekan goretex je cvrst i tocka zato pitam ovdje u svakom slucaju hvala na odgovoru

Ukratko, SS (soft shell) je mekši, tiši, bolje diše, što bolje diše to više i vjetra propušta i nije vodootporan; dok je HS (hard shell) krući, glasniji (šuškaviji), slabije diše (u usporedbi sa SS), ali potpuno vodo i vjetrootporan.

Ja osobno SS koristim u proljeće i jesen, kad je malo svježije ali suho vrijeme, dok ga po zimi koristim kao srednji sloj (kratka majica+SS+GTX HS i miran sam do -10, ispod -10 umjesto SS-a obučem Polartec flis kao srednji sloj i dobro mi je do ispod -15 što je rijetko).

evo nesto, izgleda povoljno.. trebalo bi probati... jel ima netko..?
http://www.atomshop.hr/odjeca/kisna-odijela/686
http://www.atomshop.hr/odjeca/kisna-odijela/687

Mislim da ih imaš u trgovačkim centrima tipa bauhaus ,baumax metro po pedesetak kuna(tu je negdje manje više) iste takve,sa istim sastavom.Takvu imam u autu,za prvu silu je ok al za neko pješačenje i pedaliranje baš i nije jer se ispod prilično oznojiš.Al kak velim ak se nema novca onda je i ta dobra,zato trk u trgovačke centre i pogledati na police zaštitne odjeće.

osobno ako moram birati radije ću biti mokar od kišđe nego od znoja zato ja u širokom luku zaobilazim ovakve pevec jeftine kišne komplete u kojima si zašvican kao u vreći za smeće.
kod odjeće kao i kod noževa rijetko ima kvalitetnih a jeftinih stvari.
imam više od 40 razno raznih membranskih jakni i soft shellova i definitivno postoji osjetna razlika između svih ostalih i onih od GORE materjala sasvim svejedno radi li se o soft shell ili hard shell jaknama one sa oznakom GORE ili GORE-TEX osjetno su bolje od svih ostalih nezgodno je što su i osjezno skuplje od svih ostalih pa če vam tako za jaknu i hlače trebati minimalno 3000kn pa i do
10 000kn za top modele u toj klasi.

tu i tamo se zna potkrasti i iznimka koja potvrđuje pravilo pa sam ja prije 3 godine u intersportu kupio mc kinley jaknu za bordanje sa unutarnjom soft shell jaknom sve skupa je koštalo 800kn i to mi je do sada najbolja terenska jakna ikada i najradije nju nosim na jesensko zimskim višednevnim izletima. u njoj je mambrana aquamax 10.10 koju inače ne ljubim ali u spoju sa materjalom od kojega je napravljena jakna radi fantastično.
istina je i ta da cijena od 800kn nije realna ni referentna jer sam jaknu kupio u proljeće po završetku skijaške sezone kao posljednju u dučanu i redovita cijena joj je bila malo manje od 3000kn. dakle i u ovome slučaju kvaliteta košta.
teško je netkome tko nije nosio kvalitetnu gore-tex xcr jaknu objasniti kojiko je ona stvarno bolja od prosječne 400kunače. ali i to je individualno jer recimo ja se znojim ko pingvin u sahari. viđao sam ljude koji su odradili vrlo zahtjevne zadatke u škanicl plastičnim jaknama i imali tek pokoju flekicu od znoja na majci. dakle puno tu ovisi i o metabolizmu i kondiciji osobe koja odjeću-jaknu nosi.
ja bi dao priličnu sumu samo da ostanem što suši a netkome to možda uopće nije problem jer se malo znoji.
po meni je dobar način kako doći do solidne kišne odjeće pretražiti tržnicu ovdje na forumu znam da su se prodavale neke vojne gore tex jakne sa vojnim uzorkom po jako niskoj cijeni 400-500kn, ili pričekat neku od akcija u iglu sportu i kupit si ozbiljnu jaknu za dugo vremena korištenja.



na fotki se vidi spomenuta mc kinley jakna

Meni je iskreno malo nepočudno dati za GTX, 1000+ kn kad je jaknica tanka maltene najlonski tanka, čovjek ima dojam da će se prebrzo razderati za te novce. Za obuću ne biram ništa osim GTX. Ovo o metabolizmu je jasno individualno i apsolutno stoji, iako svatko ko se kreće malo žešće se nužno i jače znoji. Ono što je kod svih tih jakni i upotreba istih važno, su otvori za ventilaciju s obzirom na neprestano raskopćavanje. Za intenzivnije hladne uvjete je razumljiva upotreba GTX.

osobno nikada ne koristim te otvore, imam neku svoju teoriju razvijenu iskustvom.
ako mi je vruće onda radije skinem jaknu. činjenica je da se znojimo, barem ja čaki i kad mi je zima, otvaranjem tih otvora snižavamo temperaturu zraka zarobljenog u jakni, temperaturu koja je neophodna da bi vlagu s kože, znoj, držali u plinovitom stanju, pare jer jedino takva može u obliku molekula vodene pare kroz gore-tex membranu prema van.
kad otvoriš dodatne otvore za ventilaciju temperatura unutar jakne se drastično snizi a vodena para se kondenzira u kapljice koje ostaju zarobljene na unutarnjim slojevima odjeće.
otvarat ventilaciju se po mojemu iskustvu jedino isplati ako se vozimo biciklom ili skijamao tada od jakog strujanja zraka kroz te dodatne otvore poput fena osuše unutrašnjost.

još je jedna bitna stvar o kojoj mnogi ne razmišljaju a to je da gore tex i druga membranska odjeća gotovo uopće ne funkcioniraju ako slojevi ispod jakne nisu adekvatni, tehnička odjeća od sintetskoh materjala, polipropilenske majce i fleece ili vunene veste.

NAVIGATOR je napisao/la:još je jedna bitna stvar o kojoj mnogi ne razmišljaju a to je da gore tex i druga membranska odjeća gotovo uopće ne funkcioniraju ako slojevi ispod jakne nisu adekvatni, tehnička odjeća od sintetskoh materjala, polipropilenske majce i fleece ili vunene veste.

S onim gore navedenim o otvorima se slažem, niti ja ih ne koristim, ali sa ovim se nikako i nipošto ne slažem!
Kad počnu kiše i niže temperature, tj. vrijem za GTX jaknu i još neki sloj ispod uglavnom su mi to najobičnija pamučna majica kratkih rukava i isto tako pamučna Fruit of the loom majica dugih rukava bez kapuljače. Tek na nižim temperaturama Fruticu zamjeni soft-shell, a na extremnim temperaturama to bude flis.
Stalno pedaliram i dosta se krećem i do sad još nisam doživio da mi se kondenzira vlaga unutar GTX-a.

vidjet ćeš koja je ogromna razlika kad ti dam polipropilenski tehnički prvi leyer koji sam ti obečao!

tek ćeš tada moći tvrditi da li nešto je ili nije, ja sam prilično dugo koristio i jedno i drugo!

Istina je da nemam iskustva sa tim tehničkim base layerima i ne tvrdim da nisu dobri, samo kažem da meni koji se dosta krećem i dosta sam aktivan GTX i te kako dobro funkcionira i sa najobičnijim pamukom ispod, to je sve.

Plastične majce su pogodnije utoliko jer se pamuk svakako puno dulje suši, tj dovoljno da se čovjek dulje pothlađuje i smrzava ako se ne kreće.
Nekome tko nakon 300 m vadi sendviče je ok i pamuk ( ne tvrdim da vadiš kolaće nakon 300 m ali za intenzivno naporno kretanje je plastični base layer zakon, i naravno merino makar probal sam ju u kibubi i pika, neudobna je i preskupa, isto imam dojam da će se raspasti nakon par pranja.

Ah da ovo sa kondenzacijom sam samo primjetil na tim vjetro vodonepropusnim fleecevima koji navodno dobro "dišu" ; imam dva i ni jedan nije ok u tom pogledu.