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 Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza

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Guru
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PostajNaslov: Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza   24.06.12 2:20

Imamo temu u kojoj generalno govorimo, šta bi bilo kad bi bilo, ali ajmo da se osvrnemo na ono što se već dešava a scenariji podsjećaju na one iz najgorih tema na ovom forumu.

Konkretno mislim na Grčku. Zemlja koja je "do juče" živjela vrhunski, odjednom krah potpuni. Ljudi bez novca, hrane, nasilje u stalnom rastu, sistem je praktično skroz pukao, pucaće i dalje.
Da li možemo da poredimo ovo sa Argentinom?

Kakva je vaša analiza stanja u Grčkoj kao člana foruma koji se bavi preživljavanjem?
Šta bi vi radili da ste u Grčkoj? Da li mislite da bi vam koristilo ono što ste naučili o preživljavanju, stvari koje ste pripremili, skloništa i sl?

Ajmo da analiziramo, jer se možda, a velike su šanse i da oćemo, nađemo u sličnoj ili istoj situaciji kao Grčka.
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Lovac23
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PostajNaslov: Re: Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza   24.06.12 4:06

Bez uvrijede svima na sledecoj analizi :
Nas je rat koji je namjesten da unisti Jugoslavio sviju zakopao u ratne kredite !
Cilj Zapada je bio da nam sve ukase da jeftino kupe sve
Ekonomija nasih zemalja je na rubu jos od kraja rata zahvaljujuci pohlepi nasih dragih politicara !
Po meni jedina opcija opstanka je povratak na selo,..ja vec 2 mjesseca radim kod sebe na maloj porodicnoj farmi
Iskreno ne bojim se gladi ...ali bilo bi zajebano da sve prepuke i postane Anarhija
Zbog bolesti fiziki se ne bih mogao braniti sreca nisam los sa nozem i pistoljem
Ljudi moramo se osvejtiti ...ja sam radio za jednu transportnu kucu da ne menujem ...bogatasi su se jos vise obogatili ...tokom KRIZE a sirotinja otisala u kurac
Savjet svima ....naucite se raditi u basti jer imate hrane od ljeta do jeseni...uhranite koju kokos ili svinju ...sa odpadom od hrane ako ga imate i polako
Za sve ostalo nema nekog nadomjestanja
Skloniste ne vrijedi ako nemate hrane da u njemu budete,ako nemate oruzija i znanja da koristite isto da odbranite svoju hranu,skloniste i zivot !
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PostajNaslov: Re: Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza   24.06.12 11:32

Slažem se s tobom lovac u potpunosti, ja sam donio odluku da sljedeće godine idem na selo.
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hawk
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PostajNaslov: Re: Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza   24.06.12 19:16

Evo jedna korisna knjiga.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/85465836/61603218-samoodr%C5%BEivo-doma%C4%87instvo-stru%C4%8Dnjak-za-vrt
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škorpion
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PostajNaslov: Re: Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza   24.06.12 20:54

Hvala za knjigu
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Fratt
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PostajNaslov: Re: Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza   24.06.12 23:16

Mislim da ovo ipak spada u Temu Raspada sistema...nek kolege odluce.


Popijem maksimalno 5 piva godišnje.

titanijum je napisao/la:

Koliko je ovo teško , najbolje ja ilustracjia, kao da čelije mozga , učinite regenerativnim .A one se ne regenerišu.Hvala Bogu.



"Pulsov sam vrtio po ruci i oduševio se, osim što je, kao i većina ovdje prikazanih majstorija naših forumita, za moj ukus predebel!"
g. Ivo, 1912.-
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PostajNaslov: Re: Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza   07.07.12 17:26

Može da koristi, sa sajta survival blog:



Discovering What We Needed in an Actual Time of Need, by M.M.
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There has been much talk on many survival/prepper blogs about when and if our electricity goes out. Lots of speculation by folks who have experienced short power outages. My husband and I have experienced numerous, long power outages. They are very common in the remote area where we live. As we are the last house on the power line, when the power goes out we are the last to get our power restored.

Our most recent long lasting power outage was in January, when our area experienced a rare ice storm. In 17 years of living in our present home, we have witnessed only three ice storms. One minor (three-day outage, minimal damage) and one pretty big (10-day outage and some significant damage) to the major storm we had in January. The tri-county area was completely out of power and phone (land lines as well as some cell service) and major damage to homes and properties. Our power was out for three weeks and our land line for four weeks. One can still see the effects of this storm when driving around now in the early summer. As we lay in bed at night, we could hear the trees exploding and cracking around us, it sounded like a war zone. Let me tell you, when a tree that is as big around at the base as a small car, and as tall as 100 plus feet crashes down in the forest, you are definitely aware of nature's power! It causes an incredible sound, similar to an explosion. Multiply that by hundreds of trees and you have an idea of what we listened to for several days and very long nights.

Since we live in an area with lots of wilderness – national forests on three sides of the community, there are lots of trees. During this particular storm, the freezing rains came down; followed by heavy snows that lasted for days. This all fell on top of several feet of snow already on the ground in these parts in January.

All of our power outages have taught us much more than reading about it ever could. During this last, particularly trying storm, my husband decided to keep a list of things we wish we had for future power outages. Once we prioritized our list, we were surprised to find not only how short the list was, but some of the top items we wanted, that we had never before considered, or had believed them to be already covered sufficiently.

Since we have gravity spring water, and gravity septic system, water was never an issue for us. Also we heat with wood all the time anyway, so heat was not an issue for us. We regularly practice storing extra food – for us a way of life for many years, long before the prepping craze – so food was not a big issue either. Our biggest three issues were lighting; washing clothes and cleaning our carpeted floors.

When you live in the boonies, your floors can get mighty dirty, mighty fast. When you add to that the fact that we were out using chainsaws all day long, then tracking in all the snow, mud, slush, sawdust and fir needles, our floors, and our clothing became filthy very quickly.

Since we already had the wash board, large sink and washing tubs, a way to heat water and soap to hand wash clothes with, I tackled the job a couple different times during this outage. Let me tell you, for any having dreams of quaintly washing clothing by hand and then hanging them in the gentle breezes of summer to folding all that freshly cleaned clothing, it “ain’t” like that at all!

Washing clothing by hand is extremely difficult and although I knew the clothes had at least been boiled, soaped and rinsed, they were not clean to the standards that we were accustomed to. Also, finding room to hang clothing indoors proved to be a bit of a challenge, and we have a very large home with only two adults. Once dry, the clothes were stiff and itchy and didn’t have that fresh smell you can get when using a dryer and dryer sheets, or even being able to hang them outdoors in the summer sun. I got blisters on my hands and my hands were extremely sore, for a couple days, and I am used to very hard physical work. My shoulders ached and there was water everywhere. Carrying boiling or near boiling water from the woodstove to the large kitchen sink proved to be very challenging, and at times even dangerous. During previous outages, there has typically been power “in town” so we could go to a friend’s home and wash clothes. Also my husband could take a load or two to work and wash them there (they have a washer/dryer at his work) or we could load up and drive to the “big” city (population about 8,000) about an hour away and use the Laundromat. Unfortunately all the power was out for miles. Our only option was to wash clothes by hand.

When we bought all the scrub boards, soap, and wash tubs, I guess I assumed I would just spontaneously know how to use all that stuff if we ever needed it. My first attempt was a colossal failure. The clothes smelled and didn’t look any cleaner. Out came our old Foxfire books and other simple living books that we have had for decades. After reading about how to wash clothes by hand, my second attempt was better and by the third attempt the clothes came out reasonably clean. Who knew that you were supposed to rub the soap on the actual scrub board, and not the clothes? We learned to dunk them in boiling water first, swish around with a stick (we used a broom handle). Then when cool enough to touch comfortably, but still hot enough to help with bubbles and rinsing, scrub up and down on the scrub board, rubbing extra hard where there were stains. Then squeeze as much water out as possible, and dunk into another tub of hot water. I would let them soak that second time for a while. After they had soaked, I still didn’t find them rinsed out enough, so I then rinsed them under cold running water in the big sink. Then you wring out as best you can, and hang as near to the woodstove as possible. Even with the woodstove going 24/7, it still took days for some of the heavier items to dry completely. It wasn’t a horrible experience, but can’t say as if I truly enjoyed it either! As soon as we can afford it, I am getting some better way of washing clothes. It is not a good feeling to be able to bathe ones body and then put on dirty clothing. A generator, or James type washer would have been much better, also at the very least we need a better way to wring out the clothing. Wringing out clothes by hand is not only physically demanding, but it is nearly impossible to hand wring out jeans or blankets, they just never get completely squeezed out and then they drip all over your floors and take days to dry.

Lighting was an issue that we felt we had under control. We have numerous oil lamps, spare parts, and even one Aladdin lamp, plenty of lamp oil as well. Lots of candles and flashlights too. However, we had only one LED type, battery powered lantern. Although it gave off the best light, it still wasn’t bright enough once it was dark outside. In these parts in January, it is dark usually by about 4 p.m., which is much too early to go to sleep. We found our eyes were straining when we tried to read or play games – which is about the extent of entertainment with no power. So we walked around looking like miners with our headlamps on all the time. We learned quickly to look at the floor or ceiling when talking directly to one another after temporary blindness from lights directly to the eyes! We have determined to get more, and brighter, LED type lamps for future use. If money allowed, a generator or alternate power system would be ideal, but until then, we found we needed much brighter lighting. It is also very nice to be able to use our headlamps as we entered the house in the dark evenings to simply turn the knob and have light, rather than light a match, trim wicks, etc. Obviously lighting a match is not that hard to do. But when you are doing it day after day and dealing with wick trimming and refilling oil bases and smelling the oil all the time (as well as watching your white ceilings turn black because you didn’t trim the wicks!) it does lose it’s romance factor quickly. So the short term solution, more and brighter LED lanterns and a solar powered battery charger. Long term, we'll need generator or alternate power source.

Last on our top three was our carpeted floors. Again, we have plans (aahhh that ever elusive money!) to put laminate/wood flooring throughout the house. For now, we have most rooms in our large home covered in carpeting. Lovely, old, stained indoor/outdoor – cheap office type carpeting. Simply gorgeous! Even if it is ugly, I still want it clean. When power is not an issue, I vacuum daily. Even though there are only two of us, we do have two dogs and a cat and tracking back and forth to bring in wood make a mess. It seems that clean floors would not be that big an issue in a major event. Perhaps for many people it is not a big deal, but for me it was huge. I like my house picked up and neat. It does affect ones attitude when your environment is out of sorts. Not to mention it could be a health issue if you have asthma, allergies, or little ones that crawl around on the floor.

Since our carpets are the “flat” type carpets, one-day I attempted to sweep them, all 2,000 square feet of them. Not only was this task extremely physically taxing, but was pretty ineffective as well. Although I did manage to sweep up some of the major debris, there really wasn’t any way to sweep up the dust or tiny parts. I had huge blisters on my hands at the end of the day. It did look “better” but it was not up to the standards that I wanted.
The only solution we could think of, besides our long term plans of putting in laminate wood flooring or getting our generator or alternate energy source, is one of those old-fashioned “sweepers” like my grandma used. Haven’t found one yet, but I am sure they are still out there somewhere. We have also been told there are some battery operated light vacuums.

We managed to conquer all the issues that came up during our long power outage. Admittedly, we had a head start since water, septic and heat were not an issue. We also had some other rather big problems that I did not mention. We had to throw out all the food in our freezer that we could not eat. It was cold enough outside to keep our refrigerator food good in coolers on the porch. It was not cold enough to keep our frozen food frozen. I cannot tell you how hard it is to throw away a freezer full of food. With all the helping we were doing with neighbors as well as keeping our own road clear, there simply was not time to can up the foods in the freezer, nor did I feel entirely confident doing canning of meats on the woodstove. I know my ancestors did so, but I have always had the convenience of an electric or gas stove for such endeavors.

Another issue we had not anticipated was we had no way to bake. Our short-term solution is to find or make a metal box to place on top of the woodstove for baking and heating up food. A nice big wood cookstove, generator or gas powered stove and oven would be nice, but a lot of things would be nice if we only had the money. Barring that, we need to find ways to deal with the problems that we didn’t realize were problems until we were in the midst of a major power outage. The issues our friends described after this event varied from, “We are planning on moving back to civilization” (dumb move on their parts!) to “We are buying a generator” (great if you have the money). Most of them simply talked about what we needed to change and brainstormed about ways to make life easier in the event of another major power outage. For many, water was the main issue as they had wells with electric pumps. Second seemed to be septic systems that required electricity to be usable. One or two days of using one of the few trees left standing and doing your business in a hole in the ground (which is really hard to dig when there is several feet of snow!) is one thing. Three weeks without operating septic is another matter altogether and can pose major health risks. Lack of heat (very few folks up here have only electric heat – but there are some) caused many folks to trek to the homes of friends with wood heat. Then a few of those people found that they were running out of food as they had planned for their own needs, but not adding 2, 3, 4 extras to the mix. A few drove all the way to the large city, about two hours away, to stay in motels and several went to shelters. All the folks that used the shelters (a high school about an hour away) said they would never do that again if it could be avoided. In spite of the fact that our area is a close knit one and stealing or foul language was not an issue in the shelter, there was absolutely no privacy. One lady said, “I thought listening to my husband snore at night was annoying, try listening to several husbands snoring all night!” Seems kind of humorous, but after a very short time, exhaustion would set in as well as that feeling of total lack of privacy. The overwhelming talk though, seemed to come around to being able to clean ones home. Maybe it isn’t a big deal to many or even most people, but for the vast majority of folks around here, it seemed to be quite the deal breaker about whether they would stay put or go stay in the city a two hour drive away, where they did have power.

Another (very pleasant) surprise was that during this outage, there was not one incident of looting, stealing, or even panic-stricken behavior that we ever heard about. People in our very small, remote community pulled together and helped one another out. However, in that large city two hours away, where we have relatives, there was chaos after only about 20 hours of power outage. Lots of looting, stealing, and just plain thuggery. One relative commented on how people in their neighborhood not only didn’t reach out to help one another, they often didn’t even help themselves, simply waiting for the city to come clean up the storm damage. One person (I am embarrassed to say a relative) actually said after this city’s rather small crisis (a windstorm, power out in much of the city for 1-to-3 days) that she was “appalled” that the city didn’t at least keep the schools open. After all, what was she expected to do with her three children for two whole days?

This same person criticized the stores for not being “better prepared for an emergency” as they had run out of all the “good food” (I am guessing candy and sodapop) before she had a chance to get anything. It was the stores fault, she maintained, that her children were hungry and had to eat food they weren’t used to. (Probably vegetables and fruit!) Luckily, we not only experienced none of that attitude here in our remote blissfulness, but also had folks coming out of the woodwork offering to help one another. I realize not all small communities are like this, but when searching out where you’d like to raise your family, look hard at the residents before you move there.

During a crisis, keeping things as normal as possible can really help to lessen the stress. That includes being able to keep one's body, clothing and home clean. While we had plenty of food, access to clean fresh water, the ability to drain our sinks and flush our toilets, as well as stay warm – we were lacking in being able to wash clothes, clean our carpets and have good, dependable, strong lighting. We are remedying these as time and money allows. We also realized that in times past when we have lost power, many of our friends in town still had power. So we could always “borrow” their electricity for clothes washing or computers. This past January it was different, no one had power. There was one business in town that had a generator, and they offered for folks to come and wash clothes and shower there, but we never got to that point. Many did, but the ones I spoke to said it was first come first served and some waited hours for a washing machine. It was definitely a different experience when everyone for miles around is in the same boat as you.

Next time you are planning for the big SHTF episode, think about how you will clean the floors; light the rooms and wash the clothes. As with all prepping, you should certainly practice before the skill is needed. If I had only read about and tried hand-washing clothes before I needed that skill, I could have saved myself some time and struggle. If we had gone without using our electric lights long term using our one LED lantern, we would have realized we needed lots more. And we had never really considered keeping the carpeted floors clean as being a prepping issue, now we know for us, it is a big issue.

When all of our normal routines are upset, it can help immensely to be able to stick as close to our normal diet and routine as possible, in order to stave off added stress. It was a real eye opener to have power out, long term, for miles around. We realized in talking to friends after the fact that even in this very remote, gun toting, “always prepared”, help your neighbor environment – just how ill prepared many of us are. It has been suggested by many to turn off your power for a weekend; or use your “get home” bag to hike from the city to your home. How many of us have actually done this? Maybe you should try it now, this weekend and see what your family is lacking and how you could improve, before an outside force thrusts it upon you.
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trolshein
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PostajNaslov: Re: Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza   07.07.12 18:21

A da si preveo, ako želiš već nešto poručiti, bilo bi mnogo pričnije čitati, ovako mi se neda
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PostajNaslov: Re: Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza   07.07.12 23:16

@Guru
Hvala za nadasve poučan tekst koji je (uzimajući u obzir uvjete u kojima većina nas živi), po mom mišljenju, savršeno pogodio tematiku foruma.
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PostajNaslov: Re: Raspad sistema u praksi, primjeri i analiza   07.07.12 23:18

Nisam imao kad prevodit, tekst je sa survivalblog.com sajta koji je po meni najbolji izvor informacija za one koje zanima ova tematika, i ima dosta tekstova na tu temu.

Ja sam dosta njih ištampao i sad ih polako čitam.

Predlažem ovu listu:

http://rethinksurvival.com/net-guide/survival-sites/survivalblog-best-posts/

Podijeljeno po temama, vjerujte da ima vrhunskih priča.
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